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Emulator
11-07-2012, 05:01 PM
Post: #11
RE: Emulator
(11-07-2012 04:55 PM)virgil94 Wrote:  You mean getting easier emulation?Maybe with time

It is because formerly did an emulator for PS1 much more easily than a PS2 ... AND the first emulator for PS3 was shown in 2011 - rpcs3 (4 years after the launch of the PS3)
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11-07-2012, 05:27 PM
Post: #12
RE: Emulator
We also speak spanish here(some of us,you didn't answer the question)

Look how much it took for the ps2 emu to work good.Also the development of the rpcs is not going as fast as other emu projects

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11-07-2012, 05:29 PM
Post: #13
RE: Emulator
(11-07-2012 05:27 PM)virgil94 Wrote:  We also speak spanish here(some of us,you didn't answer the question)

Look how much it took for the ps2 emu to work good.Also the development of the rpcs is not going as fast as other emu projects

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11-07-2012, 05:41 PM
Post: #14
RE: Emulator
My knowledge on the subject is quite limited because i am not coder; the way how the hardware works is easy once you understand it.

And yes, with time emulation of consoles will be more difficult because consoles are becoming more complex on every new generation.

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11-07-2012, 05:43 PM
Post: #15
RE: Emulator
Oh sorry then,I thought that by the username.Anyway,jpcsp has also been started recently,that is true,but it did reach this level because the developers are doing a great yet a hard thing.gid is well known dev since he is the only one now that's still working hard.You know,the ps2 has 300 mhz processor so that is why now the games work so good

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11-11-2012, 04:34 PM
Post: #16
RE: Emulator
(11-07-2012 02:00 PM)virgil94 Wrote:  Well,the PS3 has a 3.2 ghz processor.However you will need a 10x times more processor speed.If I had to say,computers require a 32 ghz processor to run the Ps3 emu(Which is kinda impossible right now)

It's not really like that, this 10x faster thing is really really relative, and don't expect to see a 32GHz CPU, that's not the path the industry is walking. The structure of the PS3 hardware facilitates multithreaded emulation, which is good cause like I said we probably will never have the required performance in a single core to do it with playable speeds. Still we would need much higher clocks than what we have today, and that with a properly optimized multithreaded JIT emulator, which will take years to code.

(11-07-2012 04:39 PM)montcer9012 Wrote:  No, i just use the emulators and that's why i don't understand why PCSX2 gave all the work to the CPU.

The GPU have been improved a lot since a few years ago so yes, i guess it could help to don't overload the CPU with process that the GPU can handle. However, there should be a reason why emu developers don't do it; maybe it can't be used; i am not sure.

What? I'm not sure I understand what you're implying but there's just no way to throw emulation code into a GPU and hope it process it, that doesn't even make sense. The console's GPU, like every other part of the virtual hardware, is emulated by the application (in this case RPCS3) which is run by the CPU.

All the GPU can do is render the output graphics like it'd do with any other PC game, it can't emulate a chip. At best you could try to optimize a little by implementing texture decoders (like OpenMP) and other stuff that can be ran by the GPU, but don't expect a miracle. In the case of RPCS3 we would need a pretty fast card because the PS3 graphics are very up to date, but nothing we don't already have today.

(11-07-2012 04:55 PM)virgil94 Wrote:  You mean getting easier emulation?Maybe with time

Not unless someone invents something faster than JIT'ed HLE, which I really doubt will happen.

(11-07-2012 04:49 PM)carroacelera Wrote:  Do you think it will, with time, more and more difficult the emulation of video games on computers?

This is already happening. More complex hardware is more difficult to emulate, and since emulators for each hardware have to be written from scratch every time, we will soon reach a point where writing an emulator for given hardware will require so much effort nobody will think it is worth it. People seem to think what is holding emulation these last years is hardware limitation. It is the amount of work required to do it, simple like that.

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11-11-2012, 05:01 PM
Post: #17
RE: Emulator
(11-07-2012 04:39 PM)montcer9012 Wrote:  What? I'm not sure I understand what you're implying but there's just no way to throw emulation code into a GPU and hope it process it, that doesn't even make sense. The console's GPU, like every other part of the virtual hardware, is emulated by the application (in this case RPCS3) which is run by the CPU.

All the GPU can do is render the output graphics like it'd do with any other PC game, it can't emulate a chip. At best you could try to optimize a little by implementing texture decoders (like OpenMP) and other stuff that can be ran by the GPU, but don't expect a miracle. In the case of RPCS3 we would need a pretty fast card because the PS3 graphics are very up to date, but nothing we don't already have today.
Well, i told i wasn't sure why emu dev don't do it Tongue

Ok, it render the output graphics to the screen but why it can't emulate a video chip? Is called GPU so it does some process (Yeah, the graphics that the PC are using but). Sorry i insist but i just want to know; maybe an McGyver developer develop a code that can be able to process info with the speaker hahahaha (Obviously not, but improvement on codes is quite interesting so i don't know what to expect)

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11-11-2012, 05:11 PM
Post: #18
RE: Emulator
I kinow that the problem with the speed is mostly because the emulator has to rewrite the instructions so the pc can understand.Yeah I kinda exagerated with the 32 ghz thing,but it was an example.Who knows?Maybe there will be someone that will make a faster jit Hle

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11-11-2012, 05:59 PM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2012 06:16 PM by Runo.)
Post: #19
RE: Emulator
(11-11-2012 05:01 PM)montcer9012 Wrote:  Is called GPU so it does some process (Yeah, the graphics that the PC are using but).

Because GPU emulation isn't graphics processing. Very roughly speaking, the GPU receives render instructions from the graphics driver. It can't process application instructions.
Emulating a GPU isn't generating graphics. It emulates every behavior of the real hardware, with more or less accuracy depending on the emulation type. What matters is that emulation is about manipulating data like the original hardware did, and GPU doesn't do that.

For the GPU to do other stuff (like processing physics) the driver must be prepared for that and the application must be coded in order to use that driver capability. Also you can't do that with anything. Among lots of other factors, you need it to be something that can be *heavily* multithreaded, and chip emulation can't.

(11-11-2012 05:11 PM)virgil94 Wrote:  I kinow that the problem with the speed is mostly because the emulator has to rewrite the instructions so the pc can understand.Yeah I kinda exagerated with the 32 ghz thing,but it was an example.Who knows?Maybe there will be someone that will make a faster jit Hle

I wouldn't say it is impossible, but we've been using Just In Time (JIT) recompilers for more then 10 years, its "invention" (the theory existed, but nobody cared to implement at first) was basically what made N64 emulation at decent speeds possible at the time. This was already done at the cost of accuracy, whatever they do to speed things up may bring glitches and bugs that can't be fixed. RPCS3 is currently HLE'ing the hardware, since we don't need the BIOS for it to run, which should make things a bit more fast and more buggy than LLE. The thing is that it only has an interpreter (which is usually how an emulator starts), which is very, very slow. when it is mature enough, a recompiler of some kind can really speed things, to the point of bringing something all the way up from 3-5 to 20-30 fps (this is just an example).

Thinking now this is kinda funny cause today my PC (specs in the sig) can run N64 games at 60fps on interpreter mode (I just tried it, just change the setting on PJ64), nobody would say that back then, that a computer would be able to interpret N64 games at playable speeds. And that considering PJ64 is single threaded, so it can only use one core for all the emulation work. CPU technology really advanced exponentially in the past decade.

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11-11-2012, 06:22 PM
Post: #20
RE: Emulator
You're right.Great response,anyway I know that this emu will become faster in future,however it will be harder for rpcs3 because only one person is working at it now.I didn't know about interpreter and recompiler.

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